POST – FINN FAMILY DNA ANALYSIS

I have a problem with being unable to trace my numerous Finn DNA connections, particularly to the USA, back to my family tree. This is because on my mother’s side, both of her parents had the surname Finn, so my grandmother was a Finn before and after her marriage. Following a tip from Peter Calver in a newsletter from the Lost Cousins website, I decided to use the Shared Matches feature on Ancestry that I have never really looked at previously, which shows connections at 20 centimorgans (cM) and above. I found that I have seventeen Finn DNA connections from 50 cM upwards, but my first cousin Stephen Wilson with 811 cM needed to be eliminated from the exercise, because he is in the same position as me, being a descendant of both Finn grandparents.

The analysis showed that eight of the DNA connections could be traced back to my grandmother, where I have some known names to underpin the analysis. This, presumably, means that the other eight are descendants of my grandfather. Most of the people mentioned do not have family trees on Ancestry, so it is difficult to progress further. This diagram illustrates my findings, including noting when an Ancestry family tree exists, as detailed below.

My grandmothers connections are:

  • John Hanrahan 136 cM – I believe this to be correct, because he is a descendant of Anna Josephine Finn, who is my grandmother’s sister, who married a Hanrahan – see the blog page ‘Long Lost Hanrahans’. He is connected to five of the people below.
  • bgrohovsky 118 cM – nothing further known, but is connected to five of the people in this list.
  • Patricia Foelsch 118 cM – nothing further known, but she is connected to all seven in this list.
  • Paul Joyce 101 cM – possibly a descendant of Mary Agnes, one of the four Finn sisters who emigrated to Cincinnati, who married Patrick Joyce. – see the blog page ‘Finns in the USA’. I have not received a reply to my message. He is connected to six in this list.
  • P. G. managed by William Grimm 93 cM – nothing further known, but is connected to six in this list.
  • J. R. managed by Vicki Lynn Rush on behalf of James Rush 91 cM – have had some correspondence with Vicki and tried to establish a connection to her tree. We got close and I do have a 2nd great grandmother named Catherine Rush on my grandmother’s side. Vicki has an extensive, but private tree on Ancestry. Vicki and James live in Utah, USA, but were previously in New Jersey, where they have relatives. James is connected to five others in this list.
  • Cheshire84 62 cM – A descendant of Anna Josephine Finn, with whom I have had direct correspondence sharing information. She is connected to two others in my list and my first cousin Stephen, mentioned above. She lives in New Hampshire, USA. See the ‘Long Lost Hanrahans’ blog page. She has a tree of over 500 on Ancestry.
  • kathykc1968 53 cM – she has small tree on Ancestry and appears to live in New Jersey, USA. She is connected to six people in my list.

These appear to be my grandfather’s eight connections:

  • Raymond Flanagan 111 cM – Raymond appears to live in Australia – see my ‘Finns in Australia’ blog page. He has not responded to my messages and has a connection with five in my list. He has a small tree on Ancestry and appears to be a descendant of John Joseph Finn.
  • D.P. managed by John Palser 64 cM – There is a connection to all seven in this list. He is a descendant of Thomas Finn and Ellen Gorman from my ‘Finns in USA’ blog page. D. P. is mentioned in my ‘War Hero Finns in USA’ blog page. There is a small tree on Ancestry.
  • Patricia Burnett 58 cM – she is mentioned in my ‘More on Finns in USA’ blog page. She connects to three people in this list. I have had some correspondence with her. She lives in Denver, USA and was born in Montana, where there are a number of Finn connections.
  • Joseph Pecora Jr 55 cM – he has five connections to the others in this list. He has an extensive tree of over 4000 on Ancestry. He is a descendant of Thomas Finn and Ellen Gorman through their daughter Matilda, known as Tilly. See the ‘Finns in the USA’ blog page.
  • emk7452 53cM – this person has four connections to the others in this list.
  • James J Farley 53cM – this person also has four connections to this list.
  • Kathleen Karl 53 cM – she is connected to six of the others in this list. She has a tree of over 400 on Ancestry. She is descended from Thomas Finn and Ellen Gorman.
  • Pat Pasquini 53cM – she has four connections in this list. She has a small tree on Ancestry and would appear to be descended from Matthew Lawrence Finn a son of Thomas Finn and Ellen Gorman.

Patricia Burnett is the only person from both lists above who also has a single connection to my grandmother’s list via J. R. I don’t think this invalidates my work, but it does suggest that caution should be exercised, particularly because there are some cross connections where the next lower band of centimorgans is considered. I did look at the band of 30 cM to 49 cM. George Gee with six connections, also had one in my grandmother’s list. Betty Walsh with three connections also had one in my grandfather’s list. There were two people, Marita Roddy and Ethelyn Hamlin who had a single connection in both lists. The lower the centimorgan count, the more the likelihood of picking up these cross connections, because this takes you back further generations, where there are many more relationship possibilities. This is the reason why I restricted the main exercise to 50 cM or higher.

In conclusion, there is much further work to do in exploring trees and corresponding with these and others with lower cM counts to try and piece it all together. I think the broad segregation of the two groups into my grandfather’s and my grandmother’s forebears and descendants is broadly correct, but there is room for error. From my earlier blog pages, it seems that the ‘War Hero Finns’, the ‘More on Finns in the USA’ and ‘Finns in Australia” are from my grandfather’s side of the family. It seems that the ‘Long Lost Hanrahans’ and the four sisters who emigrated to Cincinnati, USA from the blog page ‘Finns in the USA’, are from my grandmother’s side. If this is correct, it means that Thomas Finn, who wrote a great paper about Cloontia, is related through my grandmother. There is a paragraph after the Civil Marriage Record, in the ‘Finns in the USA’ blog page that is more suited to the ‘More about Finns in the USA’ blog page. Maybe these two blog pages could be retitled based on the grandmother/grandfather split and this section could then be moved to the other blog page. This is something I could not have known when first writing!

Post – Chatfield DNA Connections

The earliest Chatfields in my line date back to the marriage of Samuel Chatfield (1669 Up Marden, West Sussex-1708 South Hayling, Hampshire) to Elizabeth Vengham who died in 1702 in South Hayling. They were married in South Hayling in 1692 and they had two sons and two daughters, all born in South Hayling. The daughters were Frances Chatfield born 1694 and Elizabeth Chatfield born 1696. Thomas Chatfield born 1697 married Mary Copice in North Hayling and his brother, my direct descendant, was Samuel Chatfield (1699 South Hayling-1760 Greatham, West Sussex) who married Catherine Harfield (1710 West Thorney, Hampshire – 1795 Greatham) in 1729 at South Hayling. The younger Samuel started the long line of Chatfields who can trace their ancestry back to Greatham. Whilst the places quoted are either in Hampshire or West Sussex, they are a few miles apart, either side of the county border. All of the Chatfield connections detailed below can be traced back through this line, supported by DNA proof.

So, I thought I would approach this blog post working backwards from the perspective of these numerous Chatfield DNA connections. My paternal grandmother was Violet Chatfield (1892-1985). There is more about her in my blog pages “My Line of Backlers in East Sussex” and “The Chatfield Connection”. She is pictured below on her 90th birthday.

I had my DNA tested several years ago and the number of connections is slowly increasing as the Ancestry database increases. I have in my possession information from The Chatfield Family History Society and from my Aunty Betty – Brown neé Backler – my Dad’s sister. These records are extensive, which is why I have not conducted much research myself into the Chatfields. However, the DNA results have linked, using the Ancestry Thru-Lines feature, to distant relatives in the Chatfield hierarchy, where I had no idea there was a family connection. These are my DNA connections:

Norman Chatfield is my only DNA connection who bears the Chatfield surname and it seems he lives in Australia. I think his full name is Kevin Norman Chatfield. His father Thomas Ashworth Chatfield was born on 6th April 1898 in Caversham, Swan City, Western Australia and he passed away on 21st July 1982 in Safety Bay in the same state. Thomas married Eva May Luck (1900-1995) in 1921. His grandfather was Frederick Thomas Chatfield who was born in Greatham, in October 1854. He emigrated to Australia and died in Caversham on 4th April 1936. He married Nora Alicia Hardinge (1860-1949) in Auckland, New Zealand. All the remaining generations were based in Greatham, great-grandfather Robert Chatfield (1810-1862), who married Emma Maria Derby (1817-1854) in 1841, 2GGF Thomas Chatfield (1773-1817), who married Hannah Overington (1770-1838) in 1803, 3 GGF Richard Chatfield (1746-1817), who married Jane Talmey (1749-1796) in 1772 and our common relative his 4GGF and my 5GGF Samuel Chatfield (1699-1760).

Nigel Moss is my fourth cousin once removed. He has one of the largest family trees on Ancestry with over 40000 connections, all carefully researched. I have corresponded with him and he has allowed me access to this wealth of data, which has helped with this blog post and my research. His father was Lieutenant Commander Patrick Hugh Moss (1919-1989) a pilot in the Royal Navy, who married Mary Elizabeth Anne Dashwood BEM, in Columbo in 1942 His grandmother was Kate Fanny Bound (1889-1960) who I have located on the Isle of Wight in the 1911 census. She married Hugh Stringer Moss (1886-1961) in 1915 in Eastbourne and she was the daughter of William James Bound and Harriet Jane Penfold (1863-1938). Her grandparents were Barton Penfold and Harriet Chatfield (1838-1885), who were married in West London in 1861. Harriet was born in Pulborough, West Sussex and was the daughter of Charles Chatfield (1807-1880). Charles was the fathered by Michael Chatfield (1780-1832), my 3GGF and our common ancestor. Michael married Leah Lassam (1782-1834) in Pulborough, West Sussex. Michael’s father and the brother of Richard Chatfield (1746-1817), mentioned above in Norman Chatfield’s paragraph, was Robert Chatfield (1750-1782), who married Mary Greenfield (1757-1842) in 1780. Richard and Robert were two of the sons of Samuel Chatfield (1699-1760), mentioned in the introductory paragraph.

Kevin Brooks is the son of Raymond W Brooks (1930-2002) and greenknee’s mother is Ruth Coralie Brooks (1937-?). Raymond’s and Ruth’s father is Harry Albert Brooks (1896-1980), who married Elsie May Quartermaine (1897-1973) in Katanning, Western Australia in 1923. Harry is the son of Alice Penfold (1871-1957), who is the sister of Harriet Jane Penfold mentioned under Nigel Moss’s paragraph, where her earlier ancestry is detailed. Alice married George Brooks in 1894 at Steyning, West Sussex and they were living across the border in Ringmer, East Sussex in the 1911 census.

Colin Barton Penfold is also descended from Harriet Chatfield as detailed in Nigel Moss’s paragraph above. Her son Hugh Penfold (1875-1966), born Pulborough, West Sussex was in the naval police, based at Harwich, Suffolk according to the 1911 census. Hugh married Agnes Mary Peach in 1907 on the Isle of Wight, who died the following year. Hugh then married Ann Phoebe Potter in 1920 in Eton. They had a son Peter W Penfold (1921-2016), who was Colin’s father and who married Rosemary M Scutt (1932-2015) in 1954 at Chanctonbury, West Sussex.

cdiana1422, my 4th cousin lives in the USA. She is descended from Charles Chatfield (1832-1920), who married Mary Anne Street in 1874 at West Hoathly, West Sussex. Charles was the son of Charles Chatfield (1807-1880) mentioned above in Nigel Moss’s paragraph. Charles emigrated to Essex County, New Jersey in 1885 and I located them in the 1900 USA census along with his wife Mary Anne Street (1845-1925) and his daughter Alice Ruth Marian Chatfield (1878-1957). Alice married Charles McCarthy in New Jersey in 1903 and they had a daughter, Alice M S McCarthy (1915-2007), who married George Gloeckner Shaw in 1939 in New York and who are cdiana1422’s parents.

Michelle Shepherd and Rebecca Farley have the same father Robert Edward Farley (1941-2020) and their mother was Inez Margaret Roche (1938-2015). They are descended from our common 2GGF Richard Chatfield (1813-1904). Michelle’s and Rebecca’s great grandfather, my great granduncle, was David Chatfield (1847-1938). His brother was my great grandfather William Chatfield (1850-1919). David was married to Ellen Gumbrell (1851-1911) in 1871 in Redhill, Surrey and they had a daughter Ellen Mary Chatfield (1872-1955), who was married twice, first to Edward Jenner (1866-1950) in 1887 and second to Frederick William Fuller (1875-?). Ellen Mary and Edward were divorced in 1906, but she had commenced living with Frederick long before the divorce. Frederick and Ellen Mary had a daughter Florence May Fuller (1901-1981), who was Robert Farley’s mother. Florence married John Alfred Ernest Farley in Ramsgate, Kent in 1926 and then they emigrated to British Columbia, Canada.

dougrossdawe and Lisa Perrett are descended from William Chatfield (1803-1962) my 2nd great granduncle, brother of my 2GGF Richard Chatfield. William married Frances Stanford on Christmas Day 1826in Ewhurst, Surrey. They had two daughters. The first daughter was Harriet Chatfield (1827-1911) who married Joseph Marsh in 1862 in Pulborough and they had a daughter Fanny Marsh (1870-1930), who married William James Ross in 1893. Their son was Douglas Joseph Howard Ross (1900-1976), dougrossdawe’s father. The second daughter was Emily Chatfield (1846-1926) who married Henry Heather in 1874. They had a daughter Jane Heather (1880-1954), who married Charles Charman in 1905 at Petworth, West Sussex. They had a son Frederick James Charman (1906-1986), who was Lisa Perrett’s grandfather. Her father has not been identified, presumably because he is still living.

Bryn Mabey is descended from John Chatfield (1857-1935) my great grand uncle, who is the brother of my great grandfather William Chatfield. John was first married to Caroline Knight in 1881 and they had a daughter Caroline Chatfield (1890-1972). She married Frederick Foord (1888-1995) in 1921 and they had a daughter Freda Joan Foord (born 1922), who married Reginald Mabey in 1944. These are Bryn’s grandparents, with his direct parental ancestors not revealed.

Linda Smith is descended from Charles Chatfield (1859-1905) another great grand uncle and brother to my great grand father William Chatfield. Charles married Elizabeth Ann Teague in Eastbourne in 1882 and they had a daughter Ellen Chatfield (1883-1987) who was born in Eastbourne, East Sussex and who married Henry Pocknell in 1903. They produced a son – Walter Pocknell (1918-2006) – who was Linda Smith’s father and she seems to have then married a Smith.

Ishmael Gibbs is descended from Allan Chatfield (1861-1952) another great grand uncle and brother to my great grand father William Chatfield. Allan married Fanny Pates in 1884 in Eastbourne. They had a daughter Nellie Chatfield (1897-1983), who married Herbert Walter Hartshorn in Liverpool on 19th July 1918. Herbert was a private in the Canadian army and was at the Canadian Military Hospital – not sure whether serving or as a patient. The next three generations to connect to Ishmael have not been provided. More research needed, but I am guessing in Canadian records.

Cheryl Smith, my third cousin lives in Eastbourne and uses the Ancestry pseudonym sretsam150. She is descended from Esther Chatfield (1864-1931) a great-grand aunt and sister to my great grandfather William Chatfield. Esther married Joseph A Masters in 1892 and they had a son Arthur Richard Masters (1894-1980) who is Cheryl’s grandfather. Arthur had a daughter Jean Elizabeth Masters (1924-2012) who married Harry Edward Jones (1920-1991) in 1945 and they are Cheryl’s parents. We met at The Langham Hotel in Eastbourne on 18th September 2016, when Cheryl organised a Chatfield reunion. We met a distant cousin, Ann, who was visiting from Winnipeg in Canada and is descended from John Chatfield – see the paragraph above related to Bryn Mabey. We also met another cousin, Paige Thaxter, who is descended from David Chatfield – see the paragraph on Michelle Shepherd and Rebecca Farley.

These Chatfield connections all link back to the village of Greatham, West Sussex, situated between Pulborough to the north and Arundel to the south. This is the parish church. Greatham is pronounced “Grittum”. This blog has traced ancestors in the UK, Australia, the USA and Canada. I am aware that there are other connections to New Zealand and South Africa, so as usual, more research to do and I have plenty already partially completed for another post or two.

Chart of all the DNA Connections mentioned above

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